Hunter signs with Angels November 23rd, 2007 at 11:16 am
Torii Hunter’s first playoff appearance came in 2002 when the Twins reached the postseason for the first time since 1991. The season ended with a 1-4 series loss to the eventual World Champion Anaheim Angels. On Thursday, Hunter ended his tenure with the Twins to join the Angels.
He agreed to a 5-year contract worth $90 million, exactly double what the Twins single offer of 3 years, $45 million was worth. Hunter’s departure came as no surprise. Over the last couple weeks the only question has been which of a handful of teams would end up signing Hunter.
The Twins will now need to turn their attention to Johan Santana who has reportedly asked for the exact contract Barry Zito got last year (7 years, $126 million), after turning down the Twins initial offer of 5 years, $93 million. In my opinion, the Twins would be foolish no to give him that kind of deal. Compared to what he could get on the open market, it’s actually a pretty good discount.
One thing the Twins cannot afford to do, is drag their feet on this one. If they decide that $126 million is too much to take on, then Santana needs to be traded before the season begins. The prospects a Santana deal would bring to Minnesota could make them a competitive team when their new stadium opens in 2010. That’s assuming, of course, that they shell out some cash to keep guys like Justin Morneau and Joe Mauer in Minnesota.
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7 Comments
John Ellsman wrote: November 23rd, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Good riddance to bad rubbage…Torri Hunter has always been an idiot, and a barely above-mediocre offensive player (this year was his 'one per career' aberration that you can find in almost all 10+ year veterans). His best years are behind him.
The MN chump fans thought Torii was a great guy, the face of the team, etc. He is so afraid of any criticism that he tries to be all things to all people, and you rubes lapped it up. Even in today's news, the headline reads that Torii says he wanted to stay in MN. No he didn't, he wanted the most money plain and simple, and jumped at a "take it within 24 hours or leave it" deal. But you suckers will look at his statement and feel good that Torii likes you. Have some standards, fer chrissakes. Everyone also believed he was the so-called team leader; simple observation of the team dynamics shows he wasn't—the team leaders are clearly Redmond (overall) and Santana (Latinos).
By the way, I'm a Twins season-ticket holder, and I've felt this way about Hunter since his emergence. I look forward to a future without a so-called best player on the team who consistently strikes out over 100 times/year, and leads the team in GIDP's and runners stranded.
Kris wrote: November 23rd, 2007 at 4:54 pm
John, your hatred for Hunter is clearly blinding you from the facts.
Over his career, his 162 game average puts him at a .271 average with 25 HR. While he won't be confused with the game's elite hitters, he's well above mediocre.
I had to go back to 2004 to find him leading the team in GIDPs. Take a look at all the power hitters in the league. They hit the ball hard, so they're naturally going to hit into more double plays. The list of active leaders in GIDP includes some pretty good company.
I'll agree with you that Hunter tries a little to hard to be liked by everyone (and listening to him speak in the media is particularly annoying), but that's hardly the worst character flaw found in professional sports today.
The Twins offered him nothing near his market value, so let's leave a majority of the blame to them for Hunter's departure.
Hunter played hard and produced pretty good numbers over his career with the Twins. He was never in the news for negative off the field issues and he certainly was the face of the franchise in the early years of their resurgence (2001 until the Mauer/Morneau era began).
John wrote: November 24th, 2007 at 10:05 am
If you want the facts, go to baseball-reference.com, widely respected as an authoritative purveyor of player data. Go to the bottom of #48's profile, and check out the lists of players who are statistically most similar to him. Here's his top 10:
Carl Everett (938) Preston Wilson (937) Phil Nevin (934) Juan Encarnacion (931) Jose Guillen (931) Jacque Jones (930) Geoff Jenkins (930) Bobby Higginson (925) Larry Hisle (923) Leon Wagner (922)
Obviously, he has a better chance of striking a deal with Cooper's Tires (buy 3, get 1 free) than Cooperstown.
I congratulate him on his Orioles-esque contract—for a waning Carl Everett/Phil Nevin type to get superstar money is a great stroke of luck. It will be fun watching his rapid fade, which will be even more pathetic when you consider he has better hitters around him that he Twins could muster. Many thanks to the Angels.
Kris wrote: November 24th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
First, all those players you listed had or are having above average major league careers and many of them got pretty fat contracts during the prime of their career.
Second, I don't think anyone on that list had a single gold glove. Although Hunter isn't defensively the same player he used to be, he's still an above average outfielder and that certainly has to play into his contract.
Hunter is coming off two of his best offensive years, so I think it's a safe bet that he's got a few good seasons left in him (especially with a stronger offense around him).
Am I glad the Twins didn't offer him a 5-year $90 millon contract? Yes I am. Do I blame Hunter for not taking a significant discount because he somehow owes it to Minnesota to do so? Absolutely not.
I've never argued that Hunter belongs on the elite tier of players like A-Rod, Ramirez and Pujols. However your statement that he's barely above mediocre is a major distortion of reality.
John wrote: November 25th, 2007 at 12:37 am
Once again, let's stick to facts, and remove opinion. The lists I quoted are developed and compiled by respected Sabermatrecians, feel free to go to baseball-reference.com and learn about their methodology.
If you can come up with a better "reality" other than that which exists in your mind, please provide full details. Until then, I'll stick with the reality that this list best represents his peers, and I submit that this list is barely above mediocre. And by the way, you may want to also refer to a dictionary for the definition of "mediocre."
Carl Everett (938) Preston Wilson (937) Phil Nevin (934) Juan Encarnacion (931) Jose Guillen (931) Jacque Jones (930) Geoff Jenkins (930) Bobby Higginson (925) Larry Hisle (923) Leon Wagner (922)
Kris wrote: November 25th, 2007 at 10:27 am
For fear of this discussion turning into a shout-fest, let me reset things quickly:
1. I think we both agree that Hunter isn't worth $90 mil over 5 years. 2. I think we're both glad the Twins didn't offer him that kind of money.
What I took exception with is you declaring him a "barely above-mediocre offensive player" and then saying the Minnesota fans are chumps for ever liking the guy.
Since we're trying to compare him with the league average, let's look at that stats that compare a player to the rest of the league.
From Torii's Baseball-Reference page we can find a few interesting numbers.
His career OPS is .793 compared to a .771 league average.
His career runs contributed over league average (BtRns) is 14.6. In English, he contributed 14.6 more runs than the an average offensive player.
His career wins contributed over league average (BtWins) is 1.4. In English, he contributed 1.4 more wins per season than the average offensive player.
None of those numbers are astonishingly higher than league average, but if you look at each of those stats on a year-by-year basis you would conclude that for 2001 and later he was higher above league average than his career totals indicate.
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Joel Sutherland wrote: November 23rd, 2007 at 11:26 am
Now, let's find the best deal possible for Santana and move on. His $126 request is what the market may suggest, but that doesn't mean it's right. Bite the bullet and make the best deal this off-season.